Build quality of new v.s old

I am wondering if this topic has been discussed (probably) but I am sure many people have an opinion on it especially Lenovo owners and probably people who have considered a recent Thinkpad.



I also hope that owners of the older IBM Thinkpads will comment.



I am interested in learning of the differences and reading opinions about the new laptops compared to the ones that were under IBM. I know Lenovo bought them but how much has the quality gone down or maybe I should say changed? Maybe the change is just different and it's still decent business quality? That's what I want to know and to hear about the perspectives.



I can read the reviews here and the one on Notebookcheck but it is owners who can give the real scoop. Also, comparisons and thoughts about how they compare to the older Thinkpads (think T4x and T6x series, even the more portable X6x series) will help.



I am considering T410 and T510 for a new laptop. They're expensive but as long as coupons are available, they can become affordable (for me).



Finally, Lenovo is offering LED displays with a somewhat high res, are offering a digital video input port and eSATA port. These might be minor preferences but are close to being deal breakers if they are not there. While I can compromise on some, if hey are all there, then for me, the laptop becomes a contender. Thinkpads are known for being quality business machines but I would like to know how they are now - how much has the integrity of their hardware construction changed?



Thanks for any answers and comments!

Reply 1 : Build quality of new v.s old

Build quality is something that's discovered over time. The Core i machines are still pretty new. I don't know that you could say much about them durability wise. The newer machines I've seen have been very good, but I have not seen any of the Core i machines.



There's been good/bad for both the older and newer machines. The X200 is better than the X6x quality wise. When I wrote the X61 review for NBR I was amazed at how flexy the lid was. The T4x machines you referred were slim and sexy, but had rigidity issues due to the slimness. The T60 that replaced it was a much better machine in most ways, though a little thicker. The Tx00/Rx00 are solid, but the keyboard replacement was an accident waiting to happen.



Honestly, I think the best you can say is the quality yings and yangs over the years. You don't know until its time has past. Sometimes you'll buy a cheapie notebook and it'll last for a long time while others you drop a wad and it's nothing but trouble. Sometimes you just got to make a leap of faith and pray for the best.



If you know how to work the system like with coupons, you can get a ThinkPad for less than a notebook at BestBuy et al. Plus it'll offer you better quality and support. Lenovo has dropped the prices of ThinkPads by a 1/3 or more all while in my opinion retaining very good quality, which is a pretty impressive feat in my opinion.

Reply 2 : Build quality of new v.s old

Thanks for the comments, ZaZ! It helps in my comparisons. I am trying to determine overall quality and comparing to Dell, Asus and Sony laptops. I guess more the first two since they at least have 'business divisions.'

Reply 3 : Build quality of new v.s old

ZaZ reviewed the X61s with an ultralight LCD/lid. The ultralight lid is thinner and flexes more than the standard X61 lid. I haven't heard of any systemic issues with it or with X61/X61s build quality.



I think the more significant quality variations occur model vs model, or early in a model's life vs later, as opposed to IBM vs Lenovo.

Reply 4 : Build quality of new v.s old

Dell's consumer line laptops are not that good, then again i doubt that any consumer line laptops are of the same level of quality as the Business laptops. Dell Latitude laptop are okay, but their design changes all the time, if you don't have the Dell label on it, no one would know it is a dell laptop. There is no consistency in their design. Quality wise they are on par with Thinkpads in most areas, apart from the heatsink.



ASUS laptops are cheap, most of their laptops are ugly since these no visual consistency in design (just lot of unnecessary stickers and ugly plastics). Price is the main attraction towards ASUS laptop, otherwise people would just buy the Alienware for their game machines. (One could argue that the Lambo version of ASUS is really good, but the price is really expensive too).



Sony use to make quality laptops, but in the recent years, their laptop quality declined dramatically (this is across all their product line). IMHO their laptop is overpriced, and design wise it is better than most generic consumer laptops, but nothing that special.



Lenovo's Thinkpad still is the best, due to it staying true to its design element (probably have to do with the fact that Lenovo still use the same designer that IBM used for their laptop design. i.e. David Hill).



-Quality wise, Lenovo Thinkpads are better than IBM Thinkpads, due to the existence of the internal magnesium rollcage.

-Fit and finish wise, Lenovo Thinkpad's T and R series is not as good as the IBM T and R series, they are slightly bigger gaps in certain areas. But given how much cheaper the Lenovo Thinkpads compared to IBM Thinkpads was, i think this point is forgiven.

Reply 5 : Build quality of new v.s old

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZaZ The Tx00/Rx00 are solid, but the keyboard replacement was an accident waiting to happen.

I don't know much about this that you are referring to. Would it be possible for you to explain this a bit or to point me to where I can find out more about what you are saying here?



Thanks

Reply 6 : Build quality of new v.s old

Quote:

Originally Posted by lineS of flight I don't know much about this that you are referring to. Would it be possible for you to explain this a bit or to point me to where I can find out more about what you are saying here? Thanks

Starting from the T400, T500, R400, R500, X200, etc. Lenovo have changed the keyboard's backing plate from solid pate to perforated plate design, which according to Lenovo was done to save weight.



The perforated keyboard plate lacks the structural rigidity of the solid plate design, so in areas where there is lack of support i.e. around the upper left area, there is more flex than compared to the solid backplate keyboard.



For people whom don't use Thinkpads that much or never extensively used previous generations of the Thinkpads, they would usually not notice this problem. But for people whom use a lot of Thinkpads or punch the keys on their keyboard very hard, then there is discernible differences to be noticed.



Lenovo addressed this problem by either sending out the old solid plate keyboards and later adding backing plate on the upper left side of the laptop chassis (on selected laptop models).

Reply 7 : Build quality of new v.s old

Quote:

Originally Posted by lead_org Lenovo addressed this problem by either sending out the old solid plate keyboards and later adding backing plate on the upper left side of the laptop chassis (on selected laptop models).

Oh! How would I know if my R400 has the reworked keyboard or the old one? As of now, I find that my keyboard clicks a bit more than normal (as compared to an Acer 5920 and to a Sony Vaio). I can't feel any flex at all and the keyboard is (touchwood!) surprisingly responsive.

Reply 8 : Build quality of new v.s old

If your R400 keyboard suits you, why does it matter whether it's the old or new style?



To find out, remove it, flip it over and see whether the backing is perforated or not.

Reply 9 : Build quality of new v.s old

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaneL If your R400 keyboard suits you, why does it matter whether it's the old or new style? To find out, remove it, flip it over and see whether the backing is perforated or not.

Sometimes there is no way to address the question of "why" aside from asserting it as being an expression of an innate curiosity. And, thanks for the answer.